Leonid Melikhov: Join us on The Primal Podcast Episode #19 - Microsoft Next-Gen strategy is starting to get leaked and we discuss why Sony has been so quiet as well.
If the PS5 Pro leaks are accurate, the eventual PS6 is slated to be one powerful console. But if modern GPUs still lag behind true photorealism, can the PS6 get there?
I hate to be "that guy", but we have go ask ourselves do the industry need photorealistic graphics at this point or actually good games, good content, less anti-consumer practices?
This graphical obsession has brought nothing but years upon years of waiting for a game to launch with huge detailed empty worlds, bad stories and predictable gameplay and (micro)transactions everywhere. Sorry for the rant.
Same. I really don't want to be in an interactive film and, to me photorealism is not needed for immersion.
Why always target photorealism?
Why not use the extra horsepower for better, complex & diverse AI?
Why not target more interactable world? Why not use the new performance headroom for more physics effects?
Player choices that drastically affect and changes the game world?
Let’s first see what PS5 graphics look like.. we’ve seen nothing yet
@Cacabunga
For that, first Naughty Dog's PS5 single-player exclusive, then Guerilla's PS5 single-player exclusive
If anything, the massive layoffs in the industry right now are showing that investors are pulling out and not wanting to invest as much as they are right now into AAAs. Much less push for even higher detail, unless many parts of it are automated by AI for a cheaper price. Not saying I support people's jobs being replaced by AI, just stating a reality of what the money people want.
Photorealism should be reserved for games like Gran Turismo. It costs far too much to incorporate that level of detail.
Even then, if it comes at the cost of physics calculations or frame rate given the shared resources of consoles, I'd scale it back in favor of a smoother experience.
Nintendo was quite smart to never pigeonhole themselves into that. Great foresight on their part, I'd say.
But they've gotten very lazy on their games. I still like their approach don't just make game play your biggest innovation.
8bitAssassin,
I assume you're talking about Nintendo.
I think it works for them. I'm honestly glad that it's nothing like PlayStation or Xbox. It's a great reason to own one.
Yup!! I am. Yes it works for them and I love it. I want them to have better than average old tech so the scope of some of their games can drop jaws. I'm not talking about counting pixels either.
I think we need both. Why lower the standard? A photorealistic Bloodborne or Elden Ring game would be insane.
Nah im with you on that, like visually games look fine, maybe up the resolution on average but i would much rather resources be spent on things that actually make the game FEEL good to play at this point.
agreed - stop with the expensive photo realism and just create amazing games that are less expensive that are not a risk to create an original game within 2-3 years and not 7 years of development - like the OG PS2/Xbox era !
There are individual goals for individual parameters. Graphics, gameplay, scale, geometry, AI Sophistication, etc.
This article touches one of them. No need to cancel the conversation because you care more about other things.
Some photorealism is much cheaper to produce than what devs are currently forced to do.
If all games could have path tracing, there would be no need for developers to manually map ambient occlusion, shadowmaps, reflection probes, etc. It's a huge undertaking that's making games cost way more to produce on account of the rather pathetic-for-2024 RT and general performance of the current gen consoles.
As much as i hate to say it, we need new consoles as soon as feasibly possible. These consoles launched at the absolute worst possible time, right before RT/DLSS2.0/3.0 were able to quickly skyrocket games in quality on the PC side of things, leaving a ridiculously large gap between PC and console almost immediately after launch and preventing things like CyberPunk Pathtracing Mode in other games. They're holding everything back and making games take longer to produce.
I think Microsoft may be smart if they end up adopting a model where multiple companies (including NVidia) can release multiple spec variant "PC" boxes with the XBox OS. One console every decade doesn't cut it with how quick technology moves in this new era we're in.
I would love the Next step in graphic to be massive but it always turns out that it takes a long time so the ps6 graphics are gonna be like the best we have now Just with 60fps in every game. World love to se the big ass large worlds with fantastic graphics and depth. Gta 6 are gonna bring that for sure.
@hugo
100% agree but it also made the use of upscale tech the norm which made games worse and the fact console now are just tablets we need a console with a real gpu real cpu real ram setup.
It would be so amazing to see a game like you said made like the ps2/ps3 era using today's pc parts pushing the hardware.
There are titles out there that make my pc run like its still on the desktop
Agreed. For me at least, games are escapism. I don't want them mimicking real life. Graphics don't have to be photorealistic to be impressive. As with you, I'm more about the story, and I would prefer innovation in other ways. The PS5 did it with the DualSense. This it more important to me than just shinier graphics.
Personally for me, graphics have already gotten to the point where I don't really feel the need to see having it to make anymore realistic or better.
At this point, I rather game developers focus on quality/engaging stories, gameplay, & contents. Also not every every single game needs to opened world just for the sake of it.
I'd rather they focus on both. It's a trillion dollar industry. They should be able to do both.
Zenzuu
Believe it or not when it comes to consoles and games graphics are still the biggest factor. Why do you think we still see CHI trailers or in engine footage. The first impression is very important. Not for us core gamers but for millions of casuals who are quite easily impressed with wow factor graphics
"More, more, more!!! I don't care what it takes - I deserve more! And I won't PAY a dollar more!"
That's the mindset of some people out there.
I mean, can we still say that's the case even when casuals flock to mediocre looking battle royales? PUBG became huge among casuals, and it looks like a PS3 era shooter with textures that didn't load properly. And casuals have embraced the cartoon aesthetic (Fortnite is the easy example here, but there are others). What is the recent graphics focused game casuals have flocked to? Are you counting COD for that?
@1992 Candy Crush and Monopoly Go
@Tired Like I said. It's a trillion dollar industry. They could definitely do more. Customers are paying a ton of money.
There are individual goals for individual parameters. Graphics, gameplay, scale, geometry, AI Sophistication, etc. No need to cancel the conversation because you care more about other things.
Agreed especially for those who aren’t hardcore gamers. We core gamers look at everything through core gamers POV. But there is a much bigger casual market who likes looking at pretty things
Honestly with UC4 I thought we were close but things don't really seem to have improved much in 8 years. Hellblade 2 seems to have raised the bar a bit though
I don't think publishers have the money to make that happen. They can barely sustain the current level of fidelity.
The goal post for what photorealistic graphics are has always been moving. I remember some 360/PS3 sports games being called photorealistic way back in the mid 2000s.
Simply, no! Graphics wise there is barely any difference between the PS4 and PS5 just a little more particle effects and very minimal use of ray tracing. I expect even less diffence between PS5 and PS6. Just better implementation of Ray Tracing.
you are correct, but there ram has doubled, and now we have ssd not a spinning disk drive, I think we have not yet scratched the surface of next gen personally,
This is Furukawa, President of Nintendo. We will make an announcement about the successor to Nintendo Switch within this fiscal year. It will have been over nine years since we announced the existence of Nintendo Switch back in March 2015. We will be holding a Nintendo Direct this June regarding the Nintendo Switch software lineup for the latter half of 2024, but please be aware that there will be no mention of the Nintendo Switch successor during that presentation.
I'm excited for a switch 2 however I don't feel it will be coming this year as per the tweet in they are commuting to a reveal in this Japanese financial year in 2025.
Realistically we will get one last holiday season to focus on the switch because it would be madness for Nintendo to go into the holidays where the switch always performs well when they have announced a switch 2.
I'm thinking we see a announcement late Jan 25 personally with a release between March and June depending on when the software is ready and how strong the holday sales were if they need to boost those figures for the next earnings call or not
So it begins!
Where one contender pulls out of the game, another comes back bigger and stronger.
Nintendo Switch 2 - let the games begin.
A new Splatoon launch title for sure.. hoping they change the recipe and make it open world.
I think it’ll come out Q1 25. Let’s wait and see
There's a event in June for games on the switch and they said there won't be a switch 2 announcement so no way they will announce the console after june and still release it in the same year
So, I think they will shoot for another FYQ4 release (like with the first Switch) but I am confused by the headline:
'[...] Switch 2 will be officially ANNOUNCED before the end of March 2025' This implies that the Switch 2 isn't coming out till maybe holiday 2025 or maybe even 2026. I think they will be better served by NOT releasing when GTA 6 launches (unless there is some shocking reveal that it will run on Switch 2). Release early 2025.
It should be an interesting year; Sony, Nintendo, and MS all have new Hardware to show.
Sony is taking actions as video by Moore’s Law is Dead, has been issued with a copyright claim.
And people say it's all fake because Sony haven't said anything 😂 conveniently forget the PS4 Pro was only announced 2 months before release.
Digital foundry put a video out saying what he leaked was exactly what they also knew about the PS5 PRO. So no it's not just stuff he made up
Aye because they'd go to the effort of copyright claiming it if it didn't exist 🙃😂 you'd have to be a special kind to be thinking its not a thing by now
U mean the specs that we'll established digital foundry which said these are the actual specs published a video on 2 weeks ago I mean they are only one of most trusted sites for tech information but they just made up a video for the sake of it
I would love for it all to be fake, but lots of people are saying they've seen/heard the same thing. But, man, we 100% don't need mid-gen upgrades when we're failing hard to optimize current hardware.
if I recall Sony lowered sales expectations for PS5 earlier this year. if that is the case we won't hear anything about a Pro until next year or shortly before/when it's dropping. After all, if the Pro was dropping this year/fiscal year they wouldn't have lowered expectations.
As for squashing rumors. Yeah, shit like this prevents potential buyers from adopting now, just like slim rumors in the past. It only makes sense to keep things under wraps from a business perspective. Despite living in a technological age of unfettered access to information we don't need to know whats going on behind closed doors be that at Sony, Nintendo, MS, or amongst any development studios. When the steak is done we shall feast.
By the time games are actually made to take advantage of the pro spec's the ps6 will be released or close to it.
Just announce it already! I want to preorder one asap. But in reality they don’t want to lessen PS5 sales until Pro is ready to launch so I understand the business part of it. September is probably when they announce it with an early November launch like the PS4 Pro
Pro won't lessen sales sames ps4 pro never and the ps4 pro was more relevant at the time cos move to 4k this not needed
Yea, my brother got his PS4 (coz of a good deal) after the PS4 Pro's release.
^^same here. I got a base 4 for only $100 off a guy who bought the Pro. then a few months later I found a guy on craigslist selling a pro for $100 because it was left behind by his former roommate who moved out. That was the beginning of my obsession to buy up the different variants of the PS4 that were released.
As of now I am really only missing the 500m one and the gold slim but otherwise I have pretty much all the other retail ones. https://consolevariations.c...
Anyone with 4K that appreciates 60fps is gonna disagree about it not being needed.
DLSS is a god send for Nvidia, and there's been nothing like it for AMD...yet ...
They will announce it around E3 timeframe about May-June whenever they do a showcase for the year.
I don't think it will pll still haven't seen the potential of ps5 yet
agreed, but it might sell if they announce some 1st party games to lead the way. if people see the difference with the base version they can move on. for my sake I am still gaming mainly on PS4 (still not finished with RDR2 due to lack of gaming time). I have a huge backlog on PS5 I am hoping to get into.
why? game makers havnt even come close to maxing out current spec yet, were getting al lthese new TFlops and game maker are making crappy remakes not worthy of the ps3
People keep saying that, yet we still have games running at near HD resolutions, 30fps, and ray tracing features turned off.
I would take that video and upload a torrent of it, fuck that copyright bullshit. If your going to do something that has a chance of being taken down, make a torrent first share it. Then Sony or any other company is helpless and you can laugh in their faces, taunting them to try to take it down 🤣
As much as the PS4 Pro didn't represent a major % in the playerbase, announcing a 'better' model will hinder sales from the 'base' model. They are right, business-wise.
Sony's quiet because they're in the lead. They know they don't have to say or do anything just yet. Xbox had a poor performance this gen. They need to openly make moves and discuss next gen in order to change brand perception before next gen starts.
I would assume it's because running your mouth early is not an advantage in this industry. Sony can now hear what MS is doing and either carry on or decide to tweak their strategy accordingly. Given that this is MS we're talking about, they will probably go with the former, but it still gives them a leg up that MS doesn't have. Also, is there a rule that a company needs to talk about what it's planning? I get that we live in an age of instant gratification, but just because a lot of people post their whole life story on Facebook and Twitter doesn't mean corporations are obligated to do so. They can announce stuff when they see fit, but it's a perfectly valid decision if they choose not to spill everything, especially not this far in advance.
Sony let’s their actions speak for themselves. They have nothing to prove since people know their console will provide most of the year’s best games on it once again
The leaks about MS have been been pretty much the same just reported constantly by different sites.
We know that the rumor is a discless cheap Xbox One S, a probable new redesign of the Xbox One S that will make it cheaper to manufacture. And then we have the obvious next gen Xbox and a next gen higher end model.
Then on Sony basically just that a PS5 is in the works. And more than likely (speculation on my end) a higher end PS5 also.
Quiet = true plans