540°

Microsoft Losing to Sony Is a Wrong Perception, Says Pachter; They Want to Win Business, Not Console

Wedbush Securities analyst Michael Pachter believes it's an incorrect gamers' perception that Microsoft has lost to Sony.

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Christopher98d ago

"If we change what our goal is, we're not losing" attitude. Kind of like how Microsoft didn't lose to Valve, they just changed their business model. And they didn't lose to Android and iOS, they just changed their business model. They 100%, after spending 3 generations competing heavily in console hardware, aren't losing to Sony, they're just changing their business model.

You can't ever lose if you just 'change your business model'!

Jin_Sakai98d ago

Pachter is full of crap. Always assume the opposite of what he says.

Cacabunga98d ago

This clown is still around? I cannot remember he ever got one prediction right

Profchaos98d ago

Patcher predicted that take two would be brought out by ea he knows very little about the content of games and is so numbers focused

Petebloodyonion97d ago

Yet I remember that he predicted perfectly that there was no way the acquisition of ABK would not go through and that the FTC and the CMA would fold when all the media had It's basically over kind of news.
He mentioned that MS would outsource COD streaming rights (or deny COD from appearing on GP) in UK.

+ Show (2) more repliesLast reply 97d ago
crazyCoconuts98d ago

What's kinda crazy to me is - if they retreat from consoles they're left with a business model that depends on making great games that people want to buy.
What has been Xbox's biggest issue over the last decade or so?
It's not like they're falling back to a strength...

GamerRN98d ago

They didn't retreat and even promised the biggest generational leap! Where did you get retreat from?

crazyCoconuts98d ago

@Gamer if you don't see it yet, there's nothing i can say to convince you.

FinalFantasyFanatic98d ago

And just think of all those game franchises that are trapped with them, especially those they bought instead of creating.

Charlieboy33398d ago

@Gamer Yeah, just like the One X was a leap. Just like Series X was a leap. What did they bring to the table.....a leap in games? No, they brought sweet f all. Guys like you just never learn or are just dumb, falling for MS' talk talk talk over and over again.

+ Show (1) more replyLast reply 98d ago
PhillyDonJawn98d ago (Edited 98d ago )

Business is all about money not actual sales. If I sell 1 thing for 1 million and you sell 10000 things for 900k Who really won.

remixx11698d ago

The person who sold 10000 things because he has developed a consumer base and consistent revenue stream while simultaneously showing that he has the capacity to obtain market share.

The person who sold 1 thing for a million hasnt proven much outside of the simple fact that he can get an idiot to pay a copious amount of money for a single product. Holla at me when he has proven he can do it consistently overtime.

This is a nuanced subject matter

The Wood98d ago (Edited 98d ago )

How about the gamers perspective

Xbox as a console business is last in the gamersphere. Pivot after pivot, swerve after swerve. If it wasn't for pc the xbox console would died a while back. Console owners need to choose what's best for them, their experiences or the console owners profits

Christopher98d ago (Edited 98d ago )

Great. Guess who is in third place (just talking the main console market, not even including mobile and PC) both on software sales, hardware sales, and video game revenue?

PhillyDonJawn98d ago

Chris you might wanna do ya research

Christopher98d ago (Edited 98d ago )

***Chris you might wanna do ya research ***

You're right! It's only 2nd place on revenue. Good on you.

"Based on these revenues, we can see that: PlayStation made $11.3 billion more than Xbox, and $14.7 billion more than Nintendo. Xbox made $3.4 billion more than Nintendo."

Now, do you want to find me proof that Xbox isn't in third on hardware and software sales? They've literally cannibalized their own sales via subscription services and their hardware is well known to be last place.

But, hey, Microsoft is okay losing in every category here, why would they get rid of a part of their business that they are in turn (and wasn't accounted for in 2023 numbers totally since it was distributed over 5 years, 2023, 2024, 2025, 2026, and 2027, the cost of their latest purchase) spending more than 7x their annual revenue on.

PhillyDonJawn98d ago (Edited 98d ago )

@Chris I'm glad you did ya research seen you were wrong but you also forgetting this. Revenue isn't everything my friend, remember business is about money
https://www.essentiallyspor...

DarXyde98d ago

Oh my days, this is a terrible analogy...

If it was just about money, Microsoft wouldn't be doing a sub model, would they? They are literally making it cheaper than game purchases to get more uptake from more people. The goal is to have enough recurring subs over time to increase revenue (and eventually profitability), but that doesn't work in your assessment because they literally need to "sell 10000 things".

Good grief...

Christopher98d ago

***Revenue isn't everything my friend***

Yeah, you know what that TweakTown report doesn't include? Any of the cost to buy ABK. That makes it a massive loss. Massive.

FinalFantasyFanatic98d ago

@DarXyde

That analogy still works, they need to consistently sell those subs to maintain/gain revenue, if they can't constantly sell those subs.

Switch "things" with "Subs", and it still works, but they need to constantly convince people to keep buying that subscription, other people will drop their subscription and revenue will decline.

DigitallyAfflicted98d ago

ou can do math... well done.... you win

DarXyde98d ago

FinalFantasyFanatic,

I don't think that quite works:

The argument this guy is making actually sounds supportive of Playstation selling a game over Game Pass subs.

Let's take a practical example, Persona 3 Reload.

If Atlus sells you the game at $70 on Playstation and "gives it away" on Xbox as long as you continue to pay for Game Pass, well... Following their logic, wouldn't it be better if fewer people buy it for a higher price than basing it on engagement via more people on XGP? How many people would you need to play P3R on Game Pass to get the same revenue?

Eventually, the latter *can be better*, but there is the matter of a larger install base on Playstation and XGP subs are a fraction of Xbox gamers.

It's a bit ironic and I think biases are on full display because what Philly boi is saying is, in principle, more supportive of the PlayStation model, but the thing is, PlayStation has both a higher price of access AND a larger pool to pull from.

If we want to talk about the manufacturers themselves and hardware, Xbox can be purchased cheaper than PS5, but it is still getting trounced in number of sales and price of admission.

I don't really see how this argument works.

crazyCoconuts97d ago

The console war we've been watching for the last two decades has been what I find interesting. I don't really care how much profit MS can make by buying King and running Candy Crush any more than I care how much money they make bleeding businesses for MS Office licenses. That's boring. The fun thing to watch has been the work these companies have put in to try to win the console market.

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98d ago Replies(4)
Eonjay98d ago

The obvious rebuttal to Pachter's cray cray notion is that you wouldn't have to change your model if you were winning.

senorfartcushion98d ago

Or "those who win get to change their business model."

Fanboyism ends at a brick wall of "big company no care about whether you like or hate them, get a life."

Reaper22_98d ago (Edited 98d ago )

Sony said similar things when their Walkman was beaten by Apple and when Samsung surpassed them in the TV market. I can go on and on but I'm sure you get the picture. Business is business. All companies take a whippen every now and and then. The difference is how you bounce back. Microsoft net worth has grown over the years. Business wise they are very successful and no matter what, sony would love to be where they are financially. Sony isn't the competition microsoft worries about. That been clear for a long time now. Microsoft wants gaming to be a part of their ecosystem. Sony needs it. Big difference there.

Christopher98d ago (Edited 98d ago )

There's a lot wrong here.

First, the attempt to turn this argument into one about other failed businesses. Which, surprisingly, you make the argument I'm making but then...

Second, the attempt to confirm that Microsoft isn't competition when Microsoft admitted in court that they are.

Third, the attempt to act like Microsoft, from a business perspective, doesn't need what they spent over $100b to acquire but Sony does? Laughable.

Businesses are about profits. If you stop earning enough profit in a division, it goes away. Simple as that. Xbox is a division competiting against Valve, Epic, Sony, Nintendo, Android, and iOS. Simple as that. Xbox, to remain 'part of the ecosystem' needs to not cost the company more than it brings in. Simple.

98d ago
Rude-ro98d ago (Edited 98d ago )

They actually won.

The whole point was to force Sony into playing ball so that they could not put “windows” in more jeopardy than it was at the time.
Apple, Google, then Sony innovating while partnered with Linux…

When will people realize it has never been about gaming as to why Microsoft got into gaming?

Trojan horses people.

FinalFantasyFanatic98d ago

With the way Linux and Steam Deck are going, Linux might one day catch up to Windows, it's doing pretty well for gaming these days compared to say, 10 years, or even 5 years ago.

crazyCoconuts97d ago

I don't understand who u r saying won...
But I agree in that I wouldn't be surprised if Windows was part of the calculus for MS supporting Xbox. The OS was based on Windows at first and Xbox One kinda had two Windows instances if you count the hypervisor.
But, like the console space, I think MS is walking back on OS domination. Apple and Google completely ate their lunch because....surprise surprise they innovated. I'm 100% confident the reason Phil talks (and shows) about the Asus ROG Ally more than Steam Deck is because of Windows. The Steam Deck has to sting for them.

senorfartcushion98d ago

Well, yeah, that's the point. They're too big-a-company for fanboy stuff to be at-all relevant.

badz14998d ago

If Pachter said MS is not losing, it means that MS is losing.

Petebloodyonion98d ago (Edited 98d ago )

Well last I checked a company goal is to make more and more money,
Nintendo could be an example of how they stopped trying to compete with Sony (during the Gamecube day) and decided to focus on a different market and reinvented themselves with the WII.
They reinvented themselves with the Switch by bringing 2 markets together when ppl said that portable consoles were doomed thanks to cellphones and tablets.

Sony's business models also changed when they decided to port games to PC something that was never supposed to happen.

crazyCoconuts97d ago

If Xbox exits a market (consoles) to focus on another (games) I guess I don't care anymore. They lost the console market and pretty much the same companies that have been there before making games are still there flying a different flag. If they suck, other companies will eat their lunch by making better games.

+ Show (7) more repliesLast reply 97d ago
shinoff218398d ago

How's this guy still around. According to him consoles were dying after ps2, ps3 Era.

Christopher98d ago

Analysts are never wrong, the market just had a swift change for which no one could account.

shinoff218398d ago (Edited 98d ago )

Aka wrong lol

VenomUK98d ago (Edited 98d ago )

In his Gametrailers past I’ve found Pachter to be friendly and entertaining. However he’s always blindly predicted Xbox success even up to the start of this generation. Now Pachter has adopted and repeated the new terminology of Microsoft, that it hasn’t lost the console war, it just wants more business. This is illuminating because it suggest he, like Tom Warren at the Verge, is inline with Microsoft’s PR strategy.

Tedakin98d ago

He was the only person who completely nailed how the ABK court case would play out. When everyone said the deal was dead, he said no and stood firm and said MS would do exactly what they did.

MrNinosan98d ago

Did everyone say the deal was dead?
Most analytics said it would go through, but be delayed, which actually was the case.

Christopher96d ago

Almost everyone said the deal would go through.

98d ago
stonecold398d ago

michael and his bs view just give me headache wish he would go and retire

senorfartcushion98d ago

Thing is, if fanboys understood business, they wouldn't be wasting their time commenting on gaming websites.

S2Killinit98d ago

And you are here to lecture the rest of us because you understand business and MS is doing great?

neomahi98d ago

senorfartcusion....... So what brings you to the house of Pachter?

FinalFantasyFanatic98d ago

Technically Microsoft is doing great, it's just not in gaming, OS and software (e.g. Microsoft Office) is where they're doing great business. I can't think of many other ventures they've had that has worked out for them, despite resorting to some of the same tactics that made them the dominate OS for computers.

98d ago
senorfartcushion96d ago

Microsoft own things like Microsoft Office and Windows, games are secondary to them. If Xbox shut down the computer company will be ok

+ Show (2) more repliesLast reply 96d ago
MIDGETonSTILTS1798d ago (Edited 98d ago )

They only way that plan works is if people still want to play in their ecosystem.

Eventually, they’re ecosystem needs more games.

Helldivers 2 could swing Xbots to ps6 if it isn’t countered by the end of the gen.

Abnor_Mal98d ago (Edited 98d ago )

Supposedly some well known Halo modders will be making a mode similar to Helldivers.

https://gamerant.com/halo-i...

MIDGETonSTILTS1798d ago

Without procedurally generated levels, they’ll face the same problem as Destiny: fighting the same enemies in the exact same arenas does get repetitive eventually.

Helldivers succeeds as a GaaS because of its unusually well implemented use of procedural level creation. That, paired with its fun enemies to kill, makes it a GaaS with a long lifespan.

darthv7298d ago

There is a pretty good chance that those with XB also have PS, but not the other way around.

shinoff218398d ago

I do. Always get an xbox just varies on when during that Gen

cooperdnizzle98d ago (Edited 98d ago )

What kind of Jedi mind tricks do you have to come up with to get through your day?

What is the point of always having to lie or make shit up just to win? It's like cheating to win how can you feel like you accomplished something?

FinalFantasyFanatic98d ago

I haven't bought an Xbox since the 360 days, just stuck with PC and PS, sometimes Nintendo.

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200°

Trying to push players over from PC to console is a terrible idea, PlayStation

As PlayStation announces its new strategy to encourage PC users to choose PS5 it is a bitter-sweet moment for PC gamers.

Christopher18h ago

I mean, it's a business based on hardware market. Do we expect them to not even try? It's not like Nintendo doesn't do the same by not putting any games on PC and Microsoft until recently did the same. I don't care what they attempt, as long as they don't abuse the community or lie about their goals/requirements.

Will it work? Not likely. Should we care? No. Let them waste their time, it doesn't affect anything.

RaidenBlack17h ago

let them try ... at the end of the day, we get few extra PC games ... yay ... and also promotes game preservation via PC ... so double yay.

LordoftheCritics1h ago

If only Playstation games provided the ease of pc gaming features.

Primary being very few PS games support m/kb.

Fishy Fingers17h ago(Edited 17h ago)

I wish them the best of luck.

But PC players are often a patient bunch, many will even wait for Epic launcher exclusivity to end until a game comes to Steam.

If they didnt buy the console when its games were exclusive, why would they do it now theyre not?

MrNinosan2h ago

Way more do than you probably think.

ravens522h ago

All you need is that one game that'll make a few switch at a time. Like a game a PC player REALLY wants.

-Foxtrot16h ago

PC gamers are just too patient and loyal to their gaming set ups, something they've spent a lot of money on to perfect. They have backlogs of games which many never get round to finishing or get round to at all and will always have other multiplatform releases to keep them going.

Over the many years Sony has published so many awesome titles such as The Last of Us, Uncharted, Heavenly Sword, Infamous, Killzone, LittleBigPlanet, Dreams, Puppeteer, Resistance, Heavy Rain, Gran Turismo, Motor Storm, God of War, Horizon, Ratchet and Clank, Spiderman, Ghost of Tsushima, Bloodborne

If none of those games BEFORE all these PC ports convinced a hardcore PC gamer to get a PS5 console then why on Earth would porting them them to PC now make any difference? All PC gamers now know 100% is that they just have to be patient, which they are good at anyway to get a PS5 game 2 years later.

I get GaaS games or multiplayer focused titles but if people really want to play these games they'd have gotten a PS console years ago.

helicoptergirl16h ago

Who cares? Then just stay on PC and play the waiting game. No big deal. Sony wins in the end anyway.

Number1TailzFan16h ago

I mean if there's any single player Sony games that I actually want that aren't on PC then I would buy said console to play them on. But the ones that I like that aren't on PC are few and far between anyway so no loss for me.

If I game, it's usually multiplayer titles, otherwise I like playing around with some other software.

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50°

ARK: Survival Ascended Premium Mods on Consoles Q&A - By 2030, Time Spent on UGC Will Be Way Bigger

ARK: Survival Ascended has introduced Premium Mods on consoles. Wccftech talked to Studio Wildcard and their partner Overwolf about the rising importance of user-generated content, especially for live service games.

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250°

Neil Druckmann clarifies true intent of new Naughty Dog game comments

Following a recent interview with Sony, Naughty Dog head Neil Druckmann claims the original intent was “unfortunately lost” in the process.

just_looken6d ago

He can take dog shit put it in a oven with seasoning then call it waistland cookies the sony fans will pay $40 a cookie give them a medal of cooking.

No mater what trash this sobs puts out/talks about it will sell.

The true fact in the 8 years sense uncharted 4 his first time in the main seat to a point all this "amazing" team did was get 2 dudes to fuck in a van then destroy a franchise they never created.

But being a port studio they are decent at they should keep in there lane at being just that a glorified port studio.

fr0sty6d ago

Salty Bots... gotta love it.

just_looken6d ago

@frosty

Over what? naught dog under his command is a glorified port team tlou2 was mostly tlou 1 asset's with the same game play loop but forced a trans down your throat.

I would gladly help pay for this blight and his team to get removed from gaming in general.

fr0sty6d ago

Seeing a LGBT person exist in a work of fiction isn't "forcing them down your throat". Nobody is forcing you to play it. Nobody is forcing you to agree with it. If you think that just seeing a LGBT person exist is "force", it sounds like they make you very uncomfortable, and maybe you need to be doing some serious reflecting on exactly why... looks to me like you're suppressing something with all that fear.

just_looken6d ago

@fro

When i think of the last of us i think of a group of survivors crossing the apocalypse wasteland with a growing bond between 2 people that end up with Joel making ellie his new daughter.

Then you fire up the 2nd one bang joel is dead oh that comic series? bang dead

Oh you want to continue all that we grew in the first one? na f that toss it in the trash

Now here is a trans woman so strong superboy would blush go out there kill all what made tlou1 then halfway get a forced sex scene that you can not skip between 2 dudes.

The gameplay? just like the first game the combat/backpack system crafting sytem? 0 changes/improvements.

I could go on but lets face it they copy pasted that tlou 1 assets bin a shit ton of times.

There is nothing on the box or the ads or anything before the game that said you would going to spend most of the game controlling a new trans character that has no ties to anything of the first game the only existence was to kill what the first game made.

Oh but hey there is a mp mode coming out before 2022 wait what is that? oh we made it its own game then cancelled it now go but the game again as we port it a few times.

https://www.youtube.com/wat...

mkis0076d ago (Edited 6d ago )

What has Straley or Henig released since they left ND? Not a thing! stop scapegoating! Which of them is credited with co-writing a majorly successful show?

just_looken6d ago

@mkis007

You bring up Bruce Straley really? someone that gave us 4 generations of amazing games and was there in the creation of 4 legendary franchises but was tossed in the trash for the pos niel druckmann not 7? years ago

So yeah in those 7? years you right all he has done is get 2 awards one is a game award for a puzzle game he made oh boy right like for fuck sake's all niel has done is one game that was a overhyped fan boy orgasm underneath all that ps jizz was just a typical 5/10 game.

Then you drag Amy Hennig that poor woman was also kicked out then became this century's Brendan Fraser with her sexual misconduct information coming out.

We all know how horrible people are treated behind the scenes she might have been sexual attacked groped or something.

So yeah all she did after was battlefield hardline forspoken now that new marvel 1945 game but hey Brendan Fraser was a great actor till he also said he was sexually attacked just now he is allowed back in no doubt she also had to take a leave of absence out and or was forced out on ice.

Man there are way to many out there that look at niel at the new gaming jesus when all he had done is some work on uncharted 4 then tlou2

Oh also the tvhshow? for real all they did was use stuff from the 2013 game its like saying GOT was a 10/10 but never watching past season 3

-Foxtrot5d ago

@mkis007

That's highly unfair to them both

Amy Hennig got messed around working on projects that got cancelled by the publishers (EA) and then ended up on a awful game (Forspoken) where you had 4 other writers working on it which is just a recipe for disaster. She is now working on Marvel 1943: Rise of Hydra. Not her fault she was pushed out of NaughtyDog, something both Nolan North and Richard McGonagle have both said in interviews.

Bruce Straley left after burn out, the rest of the story we don't know and will never know just like what happened with Amy Hennig. He decided to take a break and wasn't sure if he wanted to come back to gaming however he had an idea he wanted to make so he founded Wildflower Interactive, a smaller studio where they are currently working on a new game.

Tacoboto5d ago

@the obvious stain of a commenter

The trans character wasn't Abby. Try playing Part 2 instead of gatekeeping what you think Part 1 was about and meant.

Maybe try watching the show while you're at it, because you're terribly off with your opinion on that too

MajorLazer5d ago

Naughty Dog is better than all the MS studios put together.

derek5d ago (Edited 5d ago )

@just he has been behind 2 of the greatest games ever made. Tlou2 was easily the best non-vr game made last gen. Losers just can't get over Joel's death, mixed with the usual console war nonsense. The fact that you so casually call him a sob shows how deranged some gamers have become about Drunkmann.

derek5d ago

@frosty, for people like Just, including anyone that can be categorized as being a minority in any kind of media is "forcing it down his throat " lol. I to don't care for poor "checking box" inclusion for inclusion sake but that was not the case with tlou2.

fr0sty5d ago (Edited 5d ago )

The pathetic part about it is, you can tell just_looken never even played TLOU, because that was the game where Ellie's sexuality was first brought to light... No "that was forced down our throats" to be said about that.

Only terrified folks in the closet that use their hatred as cover from outing themselves fear LGBT people that much. They exist. They will exist in all aspects of life, including popular media. Get over it.

just_looken5d ago

@all

Once again you drag out something like its a big win

Here is my old channel a clip of me playing TLOU on ps3
https://www.youtube.com/wat...

Search my channel for more clips

Proof its my channel? look at this profiles banner that is 7yrs old then look at other vids on that channel like my bf3 clips to see my psn id. But knowing this group that is way to much work.

Also elle being a lesbian is another trump card? one dlc is all we got of that a dlc that took over a year to be tossed out.

Rainbowcookie5d ago

Hey at least we have cookies to eat 😄

+ Show (12) more repliesLast reply 5d ago
Rangerman12086d ago

Glad he clarified it but i'm still somewhat skeptical. Plus, his comments about how Ai will revolutionize storytelling were still pretty iffy.

anast6d ago

No need to bow down, Stan your ground. The AI comments were gross though.

S2Killinit6d ago

Pretty excited as I read these. I just cant wait to see what ND is up to.

Export6d ago

put a chick in it and make her gay !

shadowknight2036d ago

Next they need a diverse couple, and perhaps some climate activists

StormSnooper5d ago (Edited 5d ago )

I would love that if only to piss off all the lunatics. Lol

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