First footage of id's new engine

John Carmack is showing off id's secret new game engine. The demonstration showcased an "insanely detailed world" made up of 20GB of textures.

[timmyp53]

lol

[Lord Anubis]

indeed.

I would have passed it as another Motorstorm footage.

[Covenant]

WOW.

WOW.

WOW.

WOW.

WOW.

[ReconHope]

it does look like a buggy in motorstorm

[tehcellownu]

20gb of textures only the power of the ps3 and blue ray can handle that..

EDIT: Blue ray will have the advantage here and will handle the game better..This gen is goin to required bigger space for games..

[tony]

not really. he did mention the 360 and pc too. do you it have on mute?

[SwiderMan]

Not to take sides in a fanboy fight, but don't you think a PS3 fanboy would know how to spell "Blu-ray" without the 'e'? That should offend both Xbox 360 AND PS3 gamers.

[Xi]

you would need around 20gigs of ram. if those textures were uncompressed.

[CrazzyMan]

btw, demo is nice.
i wonder on what pc it was running, and how it was optimized for ps3, and how will run on both ps3 and x360 consoles. :)

motorstorm 2, on this engine, or somehow combined.. would look like on e3 2k5. =)

[Xi]

how long it takes to stream uncompressed textures with out repeating textures? Right... Unless copied to ram, or compressed it would take to long to load.

[CrazzyMan]

that`s why gears of war and LAIR looks so good, with only 512MB on board.

[ITR]

The tech demo was running on a Mac.

A revised ver will be shown at E3 for the Mac.

[JIN KAZAMA]

like the GRIZZLY in motorstorm.
I cant wait to see what they do with Motorstorm 2.

[DrWan]

sheet, 50gb BluRay is too small...

[power of Green]

-So one of the home consoles can actually take advantge of this engine.

WoW Fuc off you out of control troll.

[DrWan]

what have u heard? will this be like a extra drive for the 360? it be a shame not to be able to take advantage of that texture.

[Fart_Bubbles]

at it again, even if your fantasy of 50gb DVD 9 were real what makes you think the drives in the 360 can spin fast enough to load a game like that before you have to get up the next morning??

I know xbots aren't known for their brains but damn you are one stupid mofo.

[socomnick]

I might be wrong but isnt the blueray drive slower than the dvd drive in the xbox 360 ?

[masterg]

The beauty of blu-ray is that it will become 100GB and 200GB in a few years. It started with 25GB.

[kingofps3]

id's got serious competition if they are making some kind of driving oriented game engine. Think of Motorstorm 2, GT HD (5), Burnout Paradise, Need For Speed: Pro Streets engines/games etc.

Edit:
The world made up of 20GB of textures? What kind of compression techniques are they going to use to fit this thing in a DVD for the PC and 360? See we need Blu-ray this gen totally.

[23478ueyur_938223]

Good looking engine.

[elliot_]

i can't believe there were people who disagree with your little comment...looool

probably a wii fan...

:P

[Hectic_Kris]

amazing

[tony]

welcome to next gen games. about time.

[Circa24]

I'm guessing this was showing the power of the engine being able to process 20 gigs of high-detailed textures, instead of actually using 20 gigs of textures in a game.

Because even with 50 gigs on a dual-layered Blu-ray, 20 gigs on one race track for a game is a little over the top. Plus, he said it would be used for the 360 and PC too.

[ReconHope]

a multi platform game u extreme fanboys

[Primetimebt]

Looks like motorstorm. I wonder if the 360 could handle that without the cell.

[Lyberator]

I wonder if the ps3 can handle that without 512 mb of ram. I dont care how powerfull your processor is if you dont have the ram to back it up its not going anywhere.- Yeh all you guy's stupid fanboy arguments work both ways.
A minute long video of a multiplatform engine. holy sh1t you people are retarded. I wonder if a story can be posted just once without some asshole coming in and taking a shot at the other guy.

[marison]

They do not have to have all the textures stored on 1 or more optical media, on RAM/Video RAM or on anything at the same time.

They could simple generate the texture (or part of it) for the scene they are showing now, consuming probably somewhat like 200-400MB of compressed textures for any moment.

Do you know .kkrieger? (Google for it)
In 96KB they have put graphic generator code, music, AI, animation.

96 Kilo Bytes! 1024 times less than a Mega Byte! 1024 x 1024 less than a GB!

With only 96KB they fill 256MB+ of video RAM. If id use a CD, they could create a wonderful next-gen game using clever procedural textures code.

[P4KY B]

wow. i downloaded that.

for 96k its simply amazing.

How did they do that?

[tplarkin7]

Once that technology is fully utilized, 9GB should be plenty of space. However, sound compression may not be as efficient. Still, it is extremely impressive to compress textures and polygons to such a tiny size.

[Misterhon]

ik can't see the demo..! help me.. does anybody know where i can find it???

[marison]

http://www.gametrailers.com...

[THC PRITCHARD]

clear bluray is the winner

[Xi]

how can this run on the 360? People aren't smart here. Learn to listen.

[ngg12345]

It is a tech demo showing off id's engine on a mac.

[SIX]

Who says we don't need more disk space?!?!

[marison]

They will create a code that defines the texture. Maybe with some amount of bitmap, but the code will do the most important thing.

I assume that with a good and clever 1MB (Mega Byte, that's it) of code you could generate 20GB of procedural textures. Read some bit about it. Google for the awesome FPS in 96KB .kkrieger.

[theaceh]

According to wikipedia, .kkrieger takes a ton of loading time.

"These two generation processes explain the extensive loading time of the game - all assets of the gameplay are reproduced during the loading phase."

Maybe with the power of the Cell processor or the 360's 3 cores, the loading times could be reduced.

[marison]

You will not need textures from 4-5 Km from where the main scene is going.

It's possible to preview and work on the next set of neccessary textures in time to display then with no lag.

Distant textures could be simplified. You don't need a 2048x2048 pixels texture to a 2x2 polygon. The code in this case will be simplified too.

It's already possible generate all that with clever code in real-time.

Clever code: work for id/Carmack!

[Rybnik]

Wow, I take back a bit what I said earlier, it looks a bit better than Motorstorm, but who cares, at that framerate, its unplayable..or is that the video? Anyway, yeah. When the actual game looks like that AND is actually running at at least 30 FPS, then I'll be impressed.

[SIX]

but I still think more disk space is better and if I had a choice I would opt to have it rather than not. I'm sure Carmack is only trying to draw attention to his new engine anyhow.

Your avitar is freaking me out man.

[marison]

But if they could generate so much texture using code, they will could bring reasonable games the size of a CD.

My avatar is my face. One co-worker/friend have photoshoped me and two other guys. That was inspired by a ridiculous idea: we three tested a flatbed scanner with our faces!

The other guys are a orc and a werewolf.

[Sexius Maximus]

I thought I was the only gamer to use my own face for my avatar. (Thats right, I'm a Jedi that looks JUST like Ewan Mcgregor)

[soldier sean]

This is also my face, as taken from a pic off my hdtv. (face was mapped by using the rainbow six vegas face mapper).

That makes three of us i guess , lol.

Btw , Marison , good job , very knowledgable .... refreshing to read educated posters amongst all these little kids.

[Coffin87]

20GB TEXTURES FOR A TECH DEMO????????

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHA AAHAHAHAHA!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

yeah noone needs bluray. absolutely. [/irony]

[sloth4urluv]

uncompressed textures, HD-mpeg2 and redundancy.
Thats what makes blu-ray games so big.
If you dont have the memory to store these textures it does you no good anyways.

[Diselage]

We'll see where this goes. Looks very promising.

[ben hates you]

do you know why games on the ps3 take up 15gigs, they don't compress it, on the 360 they compress, so it holds quiet a bit more then 9gigs

[ben hates you]

thats the real damn thing WHY DO YOU THINK THEY COMPRESS STUFF, HMM.. TO SAVE SPACE!!! YOU ARE THE ONES WHO SHOULDN'T BE COMMENTING, and they can fit more then 9gigs on a disc, but only so much more, fucHtards

[MoonDust]

...

[OneBubbleBastard]

" If your IQ is the same as the room temperature you shouldn't be commenting. "

That's exactly why you should stfu..

[PS360PCROCKS]

That was indeed some funny shi*...lol sorry moon.

[MoonDust]

One bubble losers are so predictable. He can read but can't comprehend. I bet you felt smart after that.

[btkadams]

i would be more blown away if the video quality wasnt horrendous. but the movements of the buggy's looked pretty cool.

[InMyOpinion]

"The Xbox 360 will probably will be id's primary development platform. As it is right now, we would get the game up on the 360. When I would do major hack-and-slash architectural changes it was back on the PC, but it s looking like the Xbox 360 will be our target. All of our tools are on the PC, and we re maintaining the game running on the PC, but probably all of our gameplay development and testing will be done on the Xbox 360. It s a really sweet development system."

http://kotaku.com/gaming/pc...

"But the honest truth is that Microsoft dev tools are so much better than Sony's. We expect to keep in mind the issues of bringing this up on the PlayStation 3... they're not helpful to the developers... I suspect they're not going to overwhelmingly crush the marketplace this time, which wasn't clear a year ago. A lot of people were thinking it's going to be a rerun of the last generation, and it's now looking like it might not be. I've been pulling for Microsoft, because I think they've done a better job for development support, and I think they have made somewhat smarter decisions on the platform. It's not like the PlayStation 3 is a piece of junk or anything. I was not a fan of the PlayStation 2 and the way its architecture was set up. With the PlayStation 3, it's not even that it's ugly--they just took a design decision that wasn't the best from a development standpoint."

http://kotaku.com/gaming/mi...

I'm pretty sure he won't have any problems developing for the 360.

[soldier sean]

good one pulling that one out....i was worried someone would'nt . Im very lazy.

[ApocalypseShadow]

you pull 2 old articles about what carmack thinks.one is january of this year.and the other is a year ago.

you neglected to mention sony realeased "for free",dev tools called PS EDGE that helps in ps3 game creation.that was march of this year.

second,carmack finds the 360 easier because that's all he knows.pc type programming.he said he didn't like the ps2 architecture.but that didn't stop games like DMC,god of war,prince of persia,ffxii,etc. from being made.

he hasn't made ONE console game in the last 20+ years.neglected that too huh?his games were ported by someone else like doom 3.he should challenge himself instead of being lazy.

[Vojkan]

I personally prefer PS3 but guy has rights to say what he thinks. Are those articles old or not, did he changed his mind, is he a limited programmer, it doesn't matter. In the end SOFTWARE talks, fools walk....

[Premonition]

Havent you heard of a new dev tool from sony called EDGE, I would advise you read about it before saying Sony isnt really helping, they have already admitted that they have lacked in dev tools but will change for the better, and they have started it by introducing EDGE to 3rd party devs.

[Maddens Raiders]

job i.d.

This could make for one hell of a Doom world. Imagine.

[Saint Sony]

Just wait, they're gona demo this technology in E3 and they will have the exact same data running with PC/360 and PS3.

[SuperSaiyan4]

Carmack prefers the 360 over the PS3, he said it himself making a game for the PS3 is like sweating blood in one of his old vid interviews.

This is just a tech demo.

[big_tim]

He said they would have the same code running on all three platforms (PC,360, PS3) at E3. So, yes, it will be on PS3.

[tudors]

Always turn this into a Blu-Ray argument; did you hear Carmack mention blueray once? no me neither; and even if Blu-Ray were an issue it still would take forever and a day to load the data because of it's poor transfer rates; just because there is 20gb of textures does not mean that they are loaded all at once; let's face it none of us here right now have the knowledge to understand the complex nature of a brand new Carmack engine; compresion is the key factor.

[tudors]

Same code running on the PC PS and 360.

[Bebedora]

the game will be craptacular on the PS3. Wouldn't honor him as a great coder, now would it?

The PC/Xbox are more general processors and that code is very badly coped with by the Cell. He should just give the job to kojima or some more professional coder IF this is the case.

[Nicosia]

^^. From what i have seen, whats the fuss? Its just looks so ugly like DOOM 3 Engine. Epic and Crytek ftw.

[BIadestarX]

Fanboys use any news they can get to try to twist things for their advantage. This was anounced as a multiplatform engine that will work on the PC, Xbox 360 and the PS3. Don't you think they would make this engine only for the PS3 if the 360 wouldn't be able to handle it? Or for a fact the PS3? Remember that the Xbox 360 dvd drive is faster than the PS3 which is why developers are using the PS3 hard drive to reduce loading time... now think about it... this is just a demo and it has 20GB... imagine a whole game? Will PS3 gamers have to format their hardrive before playing a game made with this engine? How about the memory? Or the GPU? The fact is people that, this tech demo is showing the most developers can get from the engine... not how every game will look. Most games (Specially big ones) will not be as detail as that. Also games will reuse textures... they will also use dynamic textures and textures that are programed and built in code... yes... in case you didnt know... you can program the textures for a tree in code and not have to add a image. with just a few lines of code.

So, relax... this engine will be available to both consoles... it must hurt Sony fanboys to know that. So, no reasony to expeculate that the PS3 is the only one that can run games that look like that... obviously it seems as if that's never going to change... is being how long? almost 2 years... since when the PS3 was anounced... and since the flame started?

And yet... we are waiting for that PS3 game that we can say... No game can look like that on the 360.

[THAMMER1]

The 360 and the PS3 both have more than 20 gigs of system memory not disc space.

http://xbox360.ign.com/arti...

[FirstknighT]

To much emphasis on graphics these days. I'm more interested in AI (Bioshock) or top notch story telling (Mass Effect)

[weekapaugh]

bwaaaaaaaaah, now graphics aren't important. one day they are when the PS3 gets a crappy port, now when the 360 won't have the disc size for a game the graphics aren't important.

[Figboy]

i'm *ALSO more interested in AI (Heavenly Sword), and Storytelling (Uncharted: Drake's Fortune).

see, First, there are also games on the PS3 that put gameplay and presentation before all else also.

why must you be such a flaming fanboy?

i'm creaming my pants over Bioshock and Mass Effect (just two of the games that are seriously getting me to consider purchasing a 360 this year), but i'm also dying to get my hands on Uncharted and Heavenly Sword, and i actually *PLAYED Heavenly Sword at last years E3. God of War fans should not be disappointed with how that game plays. it's fun.

point is, i'll be enjoying all four of the titles i mentioned above, while you'll probably just be huddled up in a fanboy corner, playing your 360, missing out on great PS3 games.

you're not helping or contributing to anything with your blatant fanboyism.

i love Playstation, but that's not going to stop me from getting a 360, and maybe even a Wii (granted they release a quality game that doesn't just star someone who's name rhymes with "Elda," "Ario," and "Etroid.").

either grow up, and learn that all 3 consoles are going to have games that you want to play, or just go away. you're not wanted, or needed on this site, nor anyone else with the same close-minded, ignorant mentality.

[Bill Gates]

Carmack is a lazy developer who is stuck in the past ways of developing. He needs to take his head out of M$'s ass.

...Are some of you fools beginning to eat your words now about blu-ray? Dumb fools,...."Whaa,Whaa,whaa , Blu-ray's not needed...whaa,whaa,whaa, DVD9 is plenty of space."

When this game goes to the 360 it'll be on 15 disks.

EDIT@ Watkins....Carmack LOVES the technology in the PS3. It's just that he's a lazy developer who hates learning new and BETTER ways of programming. e knows very well what the PS3 is capable of, but M$ gives him chump change to downplay the PS3 all the time.

[Fart_Bubbles]

is that the PS3 architecture has made object oriented programming a thing of the past. Try googling "parallel programming", I have a great link bookmarked on my machine at home that goes into great depth about why current programming techniques ARE COMPLETELY WRONG for multi-core architectures.

this is why games developed for the 360 and then ported to the PS3 look like crap while games developed FOR THE PS3 blow away anything you see on the glitchbox.

these are hard cold facts boys and girls, prove me wrong if you can.

[HokieFan]

From the N4G guidelines under the topic, "Things that will lower your comment limit":

"Making up “funny” names for consoles like PayStation 3 and CrapBox 360, seriously these jokes are so old so please save your self the humiliation."

You are NOT clever. "glitchbox", "xbots", and all the other lame names you use are not original or funny. They show your immaturity. Grow up.

As for proving you wrong, I will do that using the same method that you used. I have an article on my computer saying that the the PS3 architecture is wrong for video games. See, I proved you wrong!

Wait, what's that? Saying I read an article somewhere isn't proof? I thought that was a "cold, hard fact".

Stop bashing the Xbox and enjoy your PS3.

[Siesser]

Even though we're on opposite sides, I can't go against a fellow Hokie. Both systems are great for games; enjoy what you have, and let others do the same.

[HokieFan]

Amen to that! I know it's been said 100 times, but I just don't understand why people feel the need to bash the "other system." I'm sick of hearing terms like "xbots" and "paystation". It's stupid.

I actually got to play a PS3 for the first time this last weekend at my brother's place. He only has Resistance and Oblivion, but Resistance was quite fun. The only reason I don't have a PS3 is that I wanted a new system when my PS2 broke, and the PS3 wasn't coming out for another year. I'm sure I'll get one eventually, but I'm having fun with my Xbox for now.

On a side note, when did you graduate? I'm a CS grad of 2002 myself. GO HOKIES!

[Siesser]

Animal Science, 2005

[Watkins]

I can't believe he actually mentioned the PS3 before the 360, as Carmack doesn't like the PS3 and never has. Let's see how this turns out, rather interesting.

[Devilbringer]

I Know with the Blu-ray this will not be a problem. not sure with the dvd tho. lets just w8 and see. shall we :)

[sak500]

Not...Yeah right so millions of PC owners would have to upgrade their dvd/cd drives to play this game. Try to talk out your mouth not your hind. The only place where your bluray will be required is if the game ever makes it to the ps3. It will be coming first on pc and 360. Maybe after a year it might come on ps3 due to its difficult coding process.
Wait B3yond

[Bullseye]

Firstly, i suspect the new engine will be extremely flexible and well capable of tuning to any of the platforms.It's probably very modular and transportable, so i don't think the specific code for any particular platform will be an issue.Sure there may be architectural constraints to contend with on each platform, but that just means tuning and a bit of work.P.C. version will probably be miles ahead of the consoles, but that's to be expected.Afterall, you can't fit a quart into a pint pot.I know the PS3 is said to be a very different programming environment and somewhat harder to develop for,but different doesn't automatically mean better, does it? Lets see the engine running on the consoles.

[omansteveo]

I dont get this at all people are arguing about 20gigs of textures...If it wouldn't run on a Mac or a PC or even xbox 360 for that matter why bother announcing t at a Mac conference? Why not a Sony one?...I guess im really trying to see the argument, yes i know what he said....maybe he was showing the engine with everything possible crammed into it maybe showing off the level of detail in that specific demo.

[sonarus]

This is plain common sense 9GB of storage can't be enough for high def gaming. Unless Xbox wants to live its life on multiple discs. 50GB might be too much but 9Gb is definetly too small.

[razer]

Procedural Synthesis and Compression. It's only been stated like 100 times throughout the comments and by many developers.. Are you telling me every gaming platform is doomed and only Sony will survive because it has Blu-ray? Give me an break! I like the PS3 but even I don't believe that garbage.

[Hayabusa 117]

This technology has been built to run on PCs and Macs with DVD drives. If it can run on them (as it is doing in the demo) then it should have no troubles running on a 360 or PS3. carmack clearly says it's built for ALL next gen platforms.

What really excites me about this, is how it should (hopefully) lower developement time, while still maintaining AAA graphics.

@ Hookiefan

Yes, let's hope this engine becomes just as popular (if not more) among developers as the Unreal 3 engine.

@Enforcer

And if it's really using the full 20 gig textures, how much space would the whole game take up?

[THAMMER1]

I would not mind less of a wait myself.

[HokieFan]

What was that? A non-biased comment that contributed to the conversation? Your kind isn't welcome here! :)

What I like about it is that it might actually give some competition to the Unreal Engine. If everyone only used UE3, then we probably wouldn't see a whole lot of progress over this generation. Competition will drive both of them to improve.

Fast development time + AAA graphics = happy gamers!

[EnforcerOfTheTruth]

But unlike 360, PC installs the games on HDD ;-) It looks bad for the 360, in 1-2years xbugs will cry out loud that 360 doesn't have a built in HD-DVD.

[MK_Red]

That engine looks kool and pretty strong. If what they say about those big textures then how on earth are they going to put that in a disk? 20Gb for texture is too much even for Blu-ray...

[zonetrooper5]

This engine does look impressive, john carmack needs a haircut though, hes growing a retro mullet lol.

[Vip3r]

*coughs* Motorstorm *coughs*

[big_tim]

But the part that stood out to me is he claims that there is a limitless amount of art and texture that can be applied with out performance issues. He said that the game is created by what ever means and then the dev goes in an adds any amount of detail. That is when he said it took only 10 days to create. He said in another 10 days it would look twice as good. If he is right, then WOW, it will look good. Can't wait for E3.

[Neo Amon]

motorstorm 1.5

[THAMMER1]

Why do people say that? We all have waited to see this. At this point any moron can see what is going on. Only the stalker types who think every thing good mentioned about video games is only in reference to their own personal favorite. Later to be later hart broken because the competition was better all along. The bottom line is that Blu Ray is not as big of a factor as it has been built up to perpetrate.

You people need to quit. You’re just hurting you’re self.

[dork0783]

It looks better than motorstorm.

[tk]

Compression can not magically fit hundreds of Gigabytes on a DVD-9, otherwise you would need nothing more than a CD. Get over it - more space is better. Big games is going to require more space. The XB360 Elite with the 120GB hard disk will handle it OK. MS should just discontinue the core and 20GB model, Sony must discontinue the 20GB model. With a big hard disk, you won't need Blu-Ray, so XB360 fans can give the super compression workout a rest. Sorry for the Core owners, you got left behind - and the sooner the better.

[Bebedora]

This is my good ol' microsoft. Making crippleware ala xbox360 core.
Same old microsoft.

[LightofDarkness]

Firstly, no, this game will not require a 3 terabyte disc to run. It probably won't even need Blu-ray sized media to run. Because if any of you knew anythign about Carmack's most recent endeavours, you'd know about megatexturing. Megatexturing allows you to use many GBs of textures in a scene while only taking up a small amount of memory. Megatexturing is not as new as this video would suggest, he has used it in ET: Quake Wars as well. This is just a step further as far as dynamic manipulation goes. Secondly, a large factor here WILL be memory bandwidth, which we all know the 360 has an edge in. And before I'm leapt on by rabid fanboys who can't seem to read or listen (autism, anyone?) please do some research on the idea of megatexturing before you post ehre again, as you can only diminish yourself even further.
http://www.gamerwithin.com/...

[Bebedora]

If the program was made for Cell/RSX it would obviously have been done differently (not made for strenghts of PC/Xbox360)to make the same scenery, dont you think that? Use the strenght for that platform it will run on that is

[TheMART]

Looks like Motorstorm gets pwned by an ID game soon ;-) And looks better and have more then 8 tracks.

[ASSASSYN 36o]

Love ID but that looked like crap.

[egyptian_diarrhea]

Carmack is god.

[Russbomb]

OK, I'll admit that it is very impressive that developers have been able to compress games such as Gears onto a 9 GB DVD 9 Disk.
But there is going to be a point where games may not be able to be compressed onto a dvd9 disk.
I don't think that that day will come soon but it will come and at that time Sony will be look at as the smart company for thinking that far ahead.

[ShiftyLookingCow]

by the time sony looks smart, Microsoft will be here with their next console, who knows probably with more than two layer blu ray if it wins or something like that. Hmm I bet it will also come withauto trash talk functionality (the more you lose the more ugly trash talking)

[ben hates you]

it only took 6.25gigs, look it up

[PeeStree]

Any 2 hour long game with only 4 players on screen and non expansive environments can fit on a dvd9 disk. hence GOW

[ShiftyLookingCow]

wow you suck

[00]

I belive you need to grow up and maybe think before you type.

[ps3FTW]

So this what doom4 will look like

[THE TERMINATOR]

Man are you thick? MGS4, FF13, pro evolution soccer, uncharted drakes fortune all require blu-ray so saying that blu-ray wont be used until xbox 720 comes out is plain STUPID its being used already!!
Even Rockstar basically admitted that GTA 4 is being held back due to this and I think Sony may start to receive alot more exlusives titles in the future. These are only 2nd gen games bare in mind and already benefiting from blu-ray.